Terrence's posterous

mst bans me from #moose

[11:35] <metaperl> About triggers (1) how to identify what line of code the setter is in (2) the warn message from my trigger looks to be modified in some way... are warns over-ridden in some way - """ at accessor XML::Quickbooks::request (defined at C:/strawberry/perl/site/lib/XML/Quickbooks.pm line 6) line 7"""
[11:36] <@confound> no and no
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[11:37] * russoz_ is now known as russoz
[11:37] <@doy> metaperl: what exactly are you asking
[11:37] <@rjbs> doy: how I mine for perl?
[11:37] <@perigrin> Carp::Always?
[11:37] <+purl> Carp::Always is, like, it meant that would help? how do I use
[11:37] <@confound> how does fireball interact with charm?
[11:37] <@rjbs> well, if you're an elf, the charm doesn't affect you so this is sort of irrelevant
[11:37] <metaperl> doy - well my answer to (1) is the use Carp::cluck
[11:38] <@doy> metaperl: more specifically, what are you doing, what result are you getting, and what result are you expecting to get
[11:38] <@rjbs> doy++ # the holy questions
[11:38] <@confound> doy++
[11:38] <@confound> metaperl: did you see my answer yesterday about showing us your constructor
[11:38] <@perigrin> rjbs: what if you're half-elf half-bounty hunter droid?
[11:38] <metaperl> confound no I didnt
[11:38] <@confound> force sensitive droid?
[11:39] <@confound> metaperl: show us where you call the constructor
[11:39] <@rjbs> perigrin: there are no half-elves in B/X
[11:39] <@rjbs> confound: NO NO NO
[11:39] <metaperl> confound that issue is resolved
[11:39] <@rjbs> no force sensitive droids
[11:39] <@confound> metaperl: the warnwhatever being 0 when you expected 1?
[11:39] <metaperl> confound yes
[11:39] <@confound> ok
[11:39] <@perigrin> they're just droids who have a fabulous fashion sense.
[11:39] <@confound> then doy's questions
[11:40] <metaperl> my question answered his questions. what are you doing: a trigger is being called. what is the result --- i pasted it verbatim. What are you expect? I didnt expect the word "accessor" in a standard warn message
[11:41] <@doy> calling a trigger doesn't cause warnings
[11:41] <@confound> If he asked his question after your question, you may assume that your question does not answer his questions
[11:41] <@doy> you're not being specific enough
[11:41] <@confound> you don't call triggers, anyway, you do something else which causes moose to call a trigger
[11:41] <@confound> so, what are you doing
[11:41] <metaperl> ah
[11:42] <metaperl> that's what I need to figure out ... so Im cluck'ing in the trigger to see exactly why the trigger is being called. more later
[11:43] <@doy> metaperl: in particular: http://codepeek.com/paste/4e035f08160268f76c50fe00
[11:43] <@doy> so if you're doing something different than that, you actually need to say what you're doing different
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[14:05] <ether_> [5~[5~(ping?)
[14:06] <ether_> hmm Shadowcat is being slow -- http://paste.scsys.co.uk/115526 "I'm seeing lots of errors like this while building MongoDB - is it trying to use old APIs in Mouse that no longer exist?"
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[14:09] <@hobbs> ether: stale Any::Moose?
[14:09] <@mst> I don't see code like that in the current version
[14:09] <@mst> also, 'export ANY_MOOSE=Moose' if you're only going to use it with Moose anyway
[14:10] <@hobbs> yeah, there used to be code like that in Any::Moose but there's not anymore.
[14:10] <@hobbs> so it needs an upgrade :)
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[14:15] <@ether> super that did it
[14:16] * ether tsks Mongodb for not depending on a new enough version of Any::Moose
[14:16] <@mst> ether: it went completely to fuck when they stopped paying rafl to work on it
[14:17] <@mst> but, hey, mongo's pretty much a pile of crap anyway
[14:17] <@mst> so anything that discourages people from using it works for me
[14:17] <@hobbs> ether: it shouldn't be handled as a depends but as a conflicts/breaks scenario :)
[14:18] <@rafl> mst, ether: actually, they paid me again a few times after that, but only to do some hard things, not to fix all the design mistakes they made in the meantime
[14:21] <@ether> what's wrong with MongoDB? (my project doesn't use it, but others do - hence having to install it just now to run a script against otherproject's code)
[14:21] <@ether> but if I can convince them to get off it, everyone wins
[14:21] <@osfameron> which ended with "Move to Pg instead" more or less
[14:22] <@mst> that's what we've ended up doing with SC clients
[14:22] <@mst> mongo is sooo rough around the edges
[14:22] <@mst> if you already know how to use a database, it's fairly pointless
[14:23] <@osfameron> I have to admit I'm tempted by Allegrocache, or Haskell's MACID
[14:23] <@osfameron> which I guess means -> KiokuDB in the Perl context
[14:23] <@mst> mongodb is basically more a 'NoMySQL' than anything else
[14:23] <@osfameron> heh
[14:23] <@rafl> ahahah
[14:23] <@osfameron> are there any of the nosql things that you *would* recommend?
[14:24] <@osfameron> or at least put up with?
[14:25] <@mst> couchdb appears to work for the things it's designed for
[14:25] <@mst> same goes for riak
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[14:53] <@perigrin> sartak: 14:52 < ubu> "current office status: playing TMBG into microphones to assess text-to-speech  ability of various services"
[14:53] <@perigrin> Letterbox?
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[14:53] <@sartak> I'm sad that I flubbed that, it's obviously speech-to-text
[14:54] <@perigrin> meh ... that's so *not* nearly as important as what TMBG song you chose
[14:54] <@perigrin> duh
[14:54] <@sartak> dinosaur train
[14:54] * perigrin blinks
[14:55] <ubu> The Mesopotamians!
[14:56] <@perigrin> I didn't realize that TMBG did Dinosaur Train song ...
[14:56] * ubu doubts there are very many *people* that can correctly get the lyrics to that song, nevermind text-readers. :-)
[14:56] <@perigrin> ubu: this is why I was thinking Letterbox
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[14:57] <ubu> cd ~/soul && make birdhouse.c
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[14:59] <@perigrin> only $self->friend(Friend->new( little => 1, glowing => 1));
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[15:59] <+shadowpaste> "metaperl" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "why are the warnings in package Z never printed" (82 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/115577
[16:01] <@mst> Y doesn't call inner()
[16:01] <@mst> w
[16:03] <@confound> do not call super inside augment, that doesn't make any sense
[16:04] <metaperl>  """<@mst> Y doesn't call inner()""" - my question is why are the warns printed in package Z when Z->new is instantiated and it's as_xml method called?
[16:05] <@mst> metaperl: BECAUSE Y DOES NOT CALL INNER
[16:05] <metaperl> mst - now I get what you are saying.
[16:05] <metaperl> maybe I should explain my goal ...
[16:06] <@mst> ah. then you wanted 'override' in Z, not augment.
[16:06] <metaperl> mst override is not quite the ticket... let me explain what I want
[16:06] <@mst> well if you aren't using override, you can't use super()
[16:08] <metaperl> I have a base class X for xml rendering and a derived class Y which is the inner class for X. Now.... in a certain case, a class Z needs to perform some actions and then do the rendering that class Y does when instantiated and invoked directly. 
[16:09] <metaperl> so . the 'as_xml' method in Z does the various things prior to rendering and then calls super() to have Y do the desired rendering... just like the toy example
[16:10] <metaperl> maybe Z should derive from Y and have an around 'as_xml'?
[16:10] <@doy> sounds like you really want to split this into multiple methods that call each other
[16:10] <@doy> and then just override the ones that you care about in the subclasses
[16:14] <+shadowpaste> "metaperl" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "around 'as_xml' works - thanks" (85 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/115596
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[16:14] <@mst> yes, and override/super would have worked identically
[16:16] <@mst> metaperl: next time, try my suggestion before assuming it won't work.
[16:16] <@confound> but it wasn't quite the ticket, mst
[16:16] <@mst> metaperl: it's intensely frustrating for you to claim something won't work when you clearly don't actually understand what said something -is
[16:17] <@mst> metaperl: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/115597
[16:18] <@hobbs> doesn't work?
[16:18] <+purl> Look buddy, doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Is it making faces at you? Does it want more money? Is it sleeping with your girlfriend? Please be specific!
[16:27] <metaperl> lol
[16:29] <metaperl> I read on super now and it will not work in my case because of htis - """The difference is that the arguments passed to the superclass's method will always be the same as the ones passed to the method modifier, and cannot be changed."""  ... I am calling $self->$orig(@modifiedargs) because of what I am doing prior to rendering. But thanks for the suggestion
[16:29] * mst sighs
[16:30] <@mst> you never said that.
[16:30] <@mst> your example (115596) doesn't show it.
[16:30] <@rjbs> extra, extra, metaperl omits relevant details in IRC shocker
[16:31] <@mst> metaperl seems to be determined to make everybody who tries to help him feel like they wasted their time
[16:31] <metaperl> yes simple test cases sometimes dont extract all relevant details from the complex code.I'm glad this is working. It's been 2 hours of bunching up my panties over this
[16:31] <@rjbs> We all contribute in our own ways.
[16:31] <metaperl> mst I wouldnt say that. I just omitted a detail in my efforts to reduce my complex code to a simple test case
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Beware of NET-A-PORTER Perl jobs

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rudolf Lippan <rlippan@remotelinux.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:59 PM
Subject: Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Junior Perl Developer (onsite), New York, NY, USA
To: jobs-discuss@perl.org


Hello,

You might want to review this posting.

Over the past six weeks, I've been going through the interview/hiring process with NET-A-PORTER.  An offer was extended, pending final signature, last week to lead their US development team, but they pulled out after attempting to renegotiate an agreed upon salary.  NET-A-PORTER informed the recruiting company that they were pulling out of the US market for at least a year on Tuesday (6 Dec.)  I emailed both companies yesterday (7 Dec.) regarding my understanding of the situation, and I just got off the phone with the recruiting company and they informed me that the same thing happened to the two other Perl programmers assembled for the team.  NET-A-PORTER has not yet responded; and, based on the conversation I just had, I don't expect it.  If anyone has any questions, the recruiting company offered to discuss any direct inquiries regarding this situation.

I will be writing up a more detailed outline about my experience with NET-A-PORTER and post that to the london.pm list, but figured this should be looked into before anyone else gets suckered.

-r

On Wednesday, December 07, 2011 at 01:37:55 PM, Perl Jobs wrote:
> Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/14442
>
> To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe@perl.org.
> To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe@perl.org.
>
> Posted: December  7, 2011
>
> Job title: Junior Perl Developer
>
> Company name: NET-A-PORTER
>
> Internal ID: Junior Perl Developer - New Jersey
>
> Location: New York, NY, USA
>
> Pay rate: Competitve with excellent benefits
>
> Terms of employment: Salaried employee
>
> Hours: Full time
>
> Onsite: yes
>
> Description:
> Junior Perl Developer
>
> What we have to offer is unique; you will be joining a truly Agile team
> embedded within the business; this is an opportunity to establish a close
> relationship with our product owners and users and make a real difference
> in a fast-paced pure-play retail environment.
>
> Our leading edge infrastructure allows us to deliver value to our business
> every iteration, which means you will immediately be able to contribute and
> make an positive impact to our business.
>
> Our success means we are looking for the best software developers to take
> our platform and product forward. In return you will be exposed to the
> latest technologies, frameworks & methodologies in application development.
>
>
> NET-A-PORTER.COM launched in June 2000 and has since successfully
> established itself as the world’s premier luxury online fashion retailer.
> With its acclaimed editorial format, express worldwide shipping to 170
> countries, luxurious packaging and easy returns, NET-A-PORTER offers an
> unparalleled shopping experience.  NET-A-PORTER.COM is the flagship brand
> from the NET-A-PORTER group which comprises theOutnet.com, the most
> fashionable fashion outlet, and MRPORTER.COM, the global men's style
> destination.
>
> "Net-a-porter has revolutionized the way we buy designer clothes." Vogue UK
>
> ________________________________________
>
> The Role:
> •   Develop to a high standard, ensuring work is well-planned,
> estimated, tested, and documented
> •   Work closely with other team members and the Business Analysis,
> Project
> Management, QA and Technical Operations teams
> •   Develop a good understanding of business requirements
> •   Write technical specs
> •   Work within an agile team to plan improvements to systems
> •   Review other team member’s work
>
> Required skills:
> Essential Skills:
> •   Able to produce high-quality web applications
> •   Able to develop web-based user interfaces (HTML, CSS) & APIs (JSON
> & XML)
> •   Knowledge of a modern scripting language and framework, such as
> Perl, PHP, Python or Ruby
> o     We use Perl but you’ll be given time to learn (it’s easy)
> •   Experience building and testing high-availability applications
> •   A good understanding of:
> o     Linux conventions
> o     Testing frameworks
> o     Refactoring
> o     SQL (ideally Postgres / MySQL)
> o     Version Control Systems (SVN, SVK, P4, VSS, Git etc)
> o     Apache/FCGI & mod_perl
> •   Believes in common code ownership
> •   Exposure to:
> o     AJAX & Javascript, & JS frameworks (jQuery, YUI)
> o     Agile development methodologies
> o     Message queues (ideally ActiveMQ)
>
> We are looking for candidates that:
> •   Are passionate about software development
> •   Are good communicators with good writing skills
> •   Have a healthy dose of common sense and initiative
> •   Have a great sense of humor and attitude
>
> Location:
> Mahwah, NJ
>
> To Apply:
> Please follow this link http://tinyurl.com/4ywcew4
>
> NO RECRUITMENT AGENCIES PLEASE
>
> Website for more information:
> http://www.net-a-porter.com/?cm_mmc=MSNUK-_-Branded-_-Net-A-Porter-_-Net-A-
> Porter&bbcid=2625
>
> Contact information at:
> http://jobs.perl.org/job/14442#contact
>
>
>